I am not suggesting that people circumvent the managierial system and jump right to prosecution. What I am saying is that sexual harrassment require managers to do something about it. The manager at my friends workplace barely even acknowledged his complaint.
I am not for heavy legislation. When I discussed sexual harrassment, I never discussed the laws.
Can we legislate fairness? No. Can we keep people from lynching people they hate? No, no law can do that. But the laws say that its not something we condone, that these are crimes in the eyes of the government and can be prosecuted as such.
No you can't make the whole world fair, or safe. So lets do away with all laws shall we? Do theft laws keep people from stealing? Rape laws keep people from raping? Domestic Violence laws keep husbands from beating up their wives? No. But they give the government a right to punish people for these crimes and some will change their actions based on fear of being caught, not all but some.
What these laws do is give the managers a responsibility to act on the complaints of their employees. And their are plenty of managers who wouldn't do anything but throw the complaints in the garbage can without them.
But on the other hand, its not just about laws. Its about attitude. No one can legislate fairness, you are right Jesse, but your suggestion that everyone should just develop a tough skin is what makes a working environment uncomfortable for your coworkers. I don't think you should get fired for what you do in your spare time, but I think that what you do at work is something that your company should be allowed to dictate to a certain extent. Many businesses will fire their employees for not being dressed appropriately for work, does this intrude on this persons right to express themselves? Yes, but the company has a right to require that its employees behave in what it considers an appropriate manner. I am suggesting that that appropriate manner, which dictates dress and other things that the company feels are important to its image and to its employees productivity, should also include having a respectful working environment for everyone.
Email your sex jokes outside of work for all I care. But its inappropriate at work, and though we can't legislate it away the laws against sexual harrassment have finally made people cognizant of the issue. And that _has_ improved working conditions for many women, who might otherwise have been ignored, or too frightened to make the situation known to their bosses. Sexual harrassment is now something that women, and men for that matter, no longer feel is something they have to put up with, and I think thats an improvement.
You can use rhetoric to pull my arguments apart, and you probably will, but can you defend a persons right to "cop a feel" on the department secretary, suggest that a promotion is only available if sexual services are rendered, or hit on someone constantly until they give in or leave?
Because that is the issue. You want to trivialize it to say that you have a right to post and tell any jokes you want without censorship? Ok, but whether you like it or not that can make working in close quarters with you uncomfortable or even frightening for your coworkers. And maybe they shouldn't be expected to develop a tough skin to be able to function at work.
no subject
I am not for heavy legislation. When I discussed sexual harrassment, I never discussed the laws.
Can we legislate fairness? No. Can we keep people from lynching people they hate? No, no law can do that. But the laws say that its not something we condone, that these are crimes in the eyes of the government and can be prosecuted as such.
No you can't make the whole world fair, or safe. So lets do away with all laws shall we? Do theft laws keep people from stealing? Rape laws keep people from raping? Domestic Violence laws keep husbands from beating up their wives? No. But they give the government a right to punish people for these crimes and some will change their actions based on fear of being caught, not all but some.
What these laws do is give the managers a responsibility to act on the complaints of their employees. And their are plenty of managers who wouldn't do anything but throw the complaints in the garbage can without them.
But on the other hand, its not just about laws. Its about attitude. No one can legislate fairness, you are right Jesse, but your suggestion that everyone should just develop a tough skin is what makes a working environment uncomfortable for your coworkers. I don't think you should get fired for what you do in your spare time, but I think that what you do at work is something that your company should be allowed to dictate to a certain extent. Many businesses will fire their employees for not being dressed appropriately for work, does this intrude on this persons right to express themselves? Yes, but the company has a right to require that its employees behave in what it considers an appropriate manner. I am suggesting that that appropriate manner, which dictates dress and other things that the company feels are important to its image and to its employees productivity, should also include having a respectful working environment for everyone.
Email your sex jokes outside of work for all I care. But its inappropriate at work, and though we can't legislate it away the laws against sexual harrassment have finally made people cognizant of the issue. And that _has_ improved working conditions for many women, who might otherwise have been ignored, or too frightened to make the situation known to their bosses. Sexual harrassment is now something that women, and men for that matter, no longer feel is something they have to put up with, and I think thats an improvement.
You can use rhetoric to pull my arguments apart, and you probably will, but can you defend a persons right to "cop a feel" on the department secretary, suggest that a promotion is only available if sexual services are rendered, or hit on someone constantly until they give in or leave?
Because that is the issue. You want to trivialize it to say that you have a right to post and tell any jokes you want without censorship? Ok, but whether you like it or not that can make working in close quarters with you uncomfortable or even frightening for your coworkers. And maybe they shouldn't be expected to develop a tough skin to be able to function at work.