The real issues

[arachne8x]

One of the responses to my last post encouraged me to be upset about the "real issues" instead of just Eminem's lyrics.

They had a good point.

Its not easy to get people to talk about the things that really bother me. The real underlying issues. Many people avoid any issue like violence towards women with a ten foot pole. These people include my more sensitive guy friends.

I used to spend a long time trying to get them to talk to me about them, things like prostitution, pornography, sexual harrassment, sexual abuse, domestic violence, homelessness, welfare, to name a few.

I don't as often anymore. I guess part of the reason is that many people I know don't really want to talk about them. But sometimes my dialogues with other people yielded interesting results, here is one of my favorite examples.

One of my friends back home used to avoid discussions over discrimination and harrassment like the plague.

Then he started working for a defense contractor, and he was surrounded by people who were sending the kind of shit around that you get fired for at most companies. It didn't bother him much at first. Then he started to realize how much the locker room talk was a part of his environment there. He couldn't get away from it. There were no women in his group but there were women nearby. It occured to him how I would feel if I worked there, or his mom, or his grandma, etc. He finally complained to his boss about it because it started to really bother him. The complaint was given almost no attention.

During this whole thing he and I talked a lot about the environment where he worked. He became more aware of what the big deal about harrassment is all about, and started to understand where some of my feelings and complaints are coming from.

I think its really awesome that one of my male friends realized how toxic his work environment was towards women and tried to do something about it.

I wish more of my conversations with people yielded results like that. I wish I had more time to do more about the problems out there.

But if wishes were horses beggars could ride right? So I am going to try next semester to get off my ass and do something about these things, just need to get the thesis out of the way first because otherwise I will go insane. I know the world's problems don't stop because I don't have time to deal, but I need to deal with some of my own first.

(BTW about the aforementioned friend from home, He is a great guy, single and cute, and lives on the east coast)

Comments

Hrm

[m0nk3y.livejournal.com]

I am going to resist the urge to actually discuss this one with you in a public forum honestly. Most of the people I know and call friend would probably find my particular stance on this issue to be very particularly cold and heartless... So I refrain.

However, let me say this... *Abuse*... True, real, actual *ABUSE* is bad. Abuse can be objectively defined, making it a "common" and accepted method of measurement.

A "Hostile Environment" is subjective, and much like my selfsame thoughts on affirmative action (oh god, another topic of debate) I don't believe in making special considerations and alterations in things just to satisfy someone by giving them a false sense of equality.

Providing this false sense of "security" and "equality" breeds a certain comfort level that should not exist, and when it comes out that the seeming "equality" and security does not in fact exist, instead it is a subjective construct enforced on unwilling participants, we would find that the hate and inequality will raise it's head and become much, much worse, and in the end, violent.

That all said (if anyone could follow that) I am also of the opinion that 98% of "hostile" work environments are not in reality, truly hostile, it's a matter of people (women, men, etc) not having enough of a bloody backbone and a thick enough skin. Does this mean people should feel free to insult and deride? No.

I can find offense and hate, racism and sexism in nearly ANY statement and act... But I don't, because I have enough of a spine, and a big enough brain to realize most people aren't insinuating something everytime they speak. The spine comes in when someone does unwittingly and unknowingly insults me... I brush it off because I can't let the small shit bother me.

Re: Hrm

[ectophylla.livejournal.com]

There's a range of problems. Dirty jokes/posters/whatever is one level, and a relatively ambiguous one. Refering to a female coworker as a cunt is not ambiguous, not acceptable, and not something she should be expected to brush off or ignore.

I got another student suspended and nearly expelled in high school on sexual harassment charges. He spanked me in a computer lab during class. I have no qualms about what I did. *Nobody* gets to touch me like that if I don't want it.

That being said, there was a big fervor at MIT over a set of posters advertising a party that showed a man and woman dressed in "sexy jungle" clothes. I can't figure out why people were so offended by a drawing of a woman in a tiger print bikini, especially since there was an equally scantily clad man in the image with her. People are pretty self righteous sometimes, and it's not an endearing trait.

I don't think anyone [reasonable] wants to pander to the sensibilities of the most sensitive person in any given environment. Most people, though, want a certain level of courtesy and respect at work, and that seems reasonable and fair to me.

Re: Hrm

[eruvanna.livejournal.com]

I would have to ask this in a return sally. What about whatever the female coworker did to get called such a nasty name? That *is* acceptable? Most people don't call others any kind of nasty name without some reason.
Do I think Sexual Harassment is wrong? Yes. I also think that most sexual harrassment policies utilized today are so much crap written on paper. Odds of a guy getting any sort of fair play out of most policies? Whether he be the complainer or the complainee? Not damn likely.

Re: Hrm

[ectophylla.livejournal.com]

re: What about whatever the female coworker did to get called such a nasty name? That *is* acceptable? Most people don't call others any kind of nasty name without some reason.

True, but there are a lot of reasons that don't involve the woman doing anything unreasonable. There's the usual list: maybe she's the wrong color/religion/etc. And there's the social list: maybe she took a job after the name callers best friend got fired from the same position.

And, honestly, if there really is a real problem that the woman is helping to cause or perpetuate, calling her demeaning names is both unhelpful and unprofessional. She has every right to complain about the name calling, *even if it's a symptom and not the real problem.* Eliminating the problem is a separate, although, related issue. (Good management is probably a big help here.)